After my post last week (see below) about Martin McDonagh's use (or not) of negative Irish stereotyping, I was reluctant to return to that topic any time soon until I read a piece in the Guardian about a new play at the National Theatre in London which satirises various denizens of the East End through the centuries (including Huguenots, Jews, the Irish and Bangladeshis) who are all mocked "by use of the most absurd caricatures of their type." The play has kicked up a real furore in England especially among certain Muslim communities, but as one observer in the Guardian points out "it is particularly offensive towards the Irish and Bangladeshis." I haven't seen the play called England People Very Nice but apparently the Irish stereotype is that they are drunken, stupid, oafish and clumsy. This was a popular trope for English writers and comedians well into the 1980's even appearing in such sainted comedies as Fawlty Towers; but its been dead for a while and I have to say that I'm surprised to see it surface again....
It reminds me a little of an ugly incident in my past. On my first day at Oxford back in October 1991 I turned up at the porter's lodge of my college and the middle aged porter looked up my name on his clipboard and gave me the key to my assigned room. I carried all my stuff to the room and found that the key didn't work. I lugged all my stuff back and told him that the key was the wrong one and after a bit of grumbling he gave me a different key. Again I schlepped the stuff, tried the new key and again it didn't work. I went back and told the key keeper. After this second attempt the porter then unleashed an extraordinary tirade of anti Irish venom that would have done a sergeant major proud. In decidedly un-ironic tones he told me that I was a stupid Irish navvy of questionable parentage who wouldn't know the difference between a key and a horse's arse - this peppered with the lively use of the f word in its verb, noun and adverb forms. I was too stunned to reply (it was the first five minutes of my first day) and a second later he suddenly said "oh McKinty not McCleish" and gave me the correct key without so much as a sniff, never mind an apology.
...
Martin McDonagh's take on Irishmen may be an interior critique to which he is entitled but Richard Bean the author of "England People Very Nice" was born in Hull and appears unqualified to take such liberties. I wonder how much of Mr. Bean's satire is really satire and how much is very ancient prejudices bubbling atavisticly to the surface. Unlike America I don't think Britain changes that much over time. The next Prime Minister of the UK is going to be an Eton and Oxford educated member of the aristocracy and the last time they had an Irish PM it was the Duke of Wellington who said of his Irish roots "just because a man was born in a stable it doesn't make him a horse." Indeed.
44 comments:
I've read a few reviews of the play and for now I'd be prepared to give the writer the benefit of the doubt. The play within a play suggests he's not so much using stereotypes as commenting on the perhaps unconscious way stereotypes are used.
As the director said "The play lampoons all forms of stereotyping..." Hmmm!
I think this is important: "Bean's comedy, set around the Brick Lane area of east London, spans more than three centuries, from the arrival of Huguenot weavers to successive influxes of Irish, eastern European Jews and Bangladeshi Muslims. Each wave is greeted with hostility and suspicion with locals, only to integrate to such an extent that they themselves take a similar attitude to the next wave of newcomers."
I've experienced this myself in Australia, racism experienced by immigrants who later express the same racist sentiments about the latest arrivals.
Am I making sense? I always feel a little uncomfortable jumping on the condemnation bandwagon.
The reviews of the play suggest however that maybe they're playing up the stereotyping for a few laughs - a bet each way. Or as you say, "prejudices bubbling atavisticly to the surface."
Anyway, interesting story about your first day at Oxford. I could just imagine the porter, in a similar situation, doing some Basil Fawlty-like sucking up to the son of a Lord or whatever.
I love the juxtaposition of the picture. Perhaps a moral superiority prize for naming all the writers.
John
Its funny that Brendan Behan (I think) is actually getting drunk.
And yes of course it would be silly to condemn a play that I havent actually seen. It could be hilarious and acute. The Guardian only gave it two out of five stars though and it does seem a bit slaphanded.
It does seem as though the stated intention of showing how a persecuted immigrant community turns into exactly the establishment that persecutes the next wave may not have been conveyed effectly, whether in the writing or the directing is not clear. However, it's a good theme, and one that could certainly be told in the U.S. over and over again. In fact, not to ruffle Irish sensibilities any more than they already have been today, there was a book that came out here called How the Irish Became White by Noel Ignatiev. I haven't read it, but its basic premise is that the Irish in America separated themselves out from the common experience of oppression that they shared with African-Americans in order to make their way into the white establishment. The publisher notes are here.
As for Oxford, well, I can hardly imagine a less auspicious start than the one you had, Adrian. I hope it was all roses from there, but I imagine there were continuing ambiguities to the experience. I've known a few Oxford alums, but one was from a Yorkshire coal mining town and one was from the U.S., and they did feel like outsiders. The other would have been more at home, but I can't imagine him ever siding with that porter.
On my one visit to Oxford, I wasn't with even the likes of them, and I was rather put off by the presence of all those gatekeepers and rules. Coming fresh from the California university experience, especially from Santa Cruz, where people would wander in from the woods and use the dorm showers, and sometimes even attend classes, to the inconvenience of no one, I really didn't get the insider/outsider mentality.
First of all, on the matter of immigration, multiculturalism, misunderstandings and mutual prejudices, I can't help but once again mention Clash of Civilizations Over an Elevator in Piazza Vittorio:
Here's what Peter had to say in his Best of 2008 article:
Clash of Civilizations Over an Elevator in Piazza Vittorio, by Amara Lakhous, a great little novel that made book critic Carlin Romano wonder: "Do we have an Italian Camus on our hands?"
Each wave is greeted with hostility and suspicion with locals, only to integrate to such an extent that they themselves take a similar attitude to the next wave of newcomers
I've experienced this myself in Australia, racism experienced by immigrants who later express the same racist sentiments about the latest arrivals.
Here comes to mind Izzo's Marseille Trilogy, which among other things shows the differents reactions of second-generation Italian immigrants in France to the new wave of Arabic immigration-those,like the protagonist Montale, who remember the humiliations they had to endure and are sympathetic and those who now feel "white" and adopt without thinking prevalent stereotypes.
But really it's an universal mechanism - groups at the bottom of the social ladder are always played against each other, and even single communities are torn apart by opposing drives to assimilation and reinforcement of cultural identity.
Martin McDonagh's take on Irishmen may be an interior critique to which he is entitled but Richard Bean the author of "England People Very Nice" was born in Hull and appears unqualified to take such liberties.
According to Wikipedia Martin McDonagh was born in Camberwell.
I'm wary of this "interior critique" discourse. Larger groups tend to select the kind of interior critiques that confirm their stereotypes,or agendas. In my country there's an Egyptian journalist recently converted to Christianity, and his critique of the Islamic world "from the inside", which means from the point of view of someone who now is a Catholic Neocon, has more space than the totality of voices from the diverse Italian Islamic community.
Similarly, many Italians of Jewish origin- among them prestigious intellectuals- have been openly critical of the retaliation of the Israeli government in Gaza, but on TV you could only see hardliners.
On principle it could be perfectly possible, regardless of the validity of mr. McDonagh claim to Irishness, for his work to be appreciated and given exposure outside Ireland not for its intrinsic value, but because it confirms familiar tropes.
On Mr.Bean, even if his play intends to lampoon all forms of stereotyping,there's always the risk of ending up reinforcing them.
The main point for me is to what extent you can criticize/satirize various ethnical/social/cultural groups (which will never be homogeneous) highlighting the more controversial aspects.
Is portraying "a mad mullah ranting about how women must be subservient to men" more offensive than making a video in which a priest explains that the purpose of the Catholic Church is fucking boys?
I don't think there should be hard and fast rules, but certainly in origin satire was directed against those who were in a position of power-and abused that power- not so much minority groups.
Seana
Interesting book, I hadnt heard of it before. As a very recent immigrant in NYC, especially the years when I was illegal I always felt more akin to the illegal Dominicans than to the established Irish.
Each Oxford college has its own levels of snootiness of course. Balliol, University, Magdalen and Christ Church were the worst.
Marco
Yes he was born in London but of Irish parents and he spent his summers in Ireland (so he says).
I know the interior critique idea is skating on thin ice. There's an episode of Seinfeld where Tim Watley the dentists converts to Judaism so that he can crack Jewish jokes. Seinfeld says that he's not offended as a Jew but as a comedian.
I think Mr. Bean's play (unfortunate name BTW) will also depend on just how funny it is. Funny excuses a lot.
Good points, Marco, and of course, you're right that both Lahour and Izzo speak directly to this issue, I think more successfully--is it just because more compassionately? Again, though I haven't seen the play.
I was wondering who the drinker was in the poster--wouldn't get the moral superiority prize I'm afraid--and am glad to know the answer.
Which college were you at, then, Adrian?
Not that I remember which one anyone else I know attended.
My father, in fact his whole family, was keenly interested in politics, but despite his Irish heritage, I don't think there was a single Irish politician who rose to prominence that he would have trusted farther than he could throw them. Kennedy, Nixon, John Connally.
I take it back--he did like Eugene McCarthy.
John
I'm sure I can name all the writers there. I'm not sure about the guy middle top or second from the bottom right.
Seana
I was at Lady Margaret Hall which was the first woman's college back in the ninenteenth c. but had been co ed for a few years when I attended though it still skewed female. It was actually a very pretty and civilized place just north of the parks with its own boat house on the river etc. And to be honest the snob factor was quite low.
I played rugby for Trinity College however and that was quite different.
Oh, I expect a college that skewed female probably worked out quite well for you, as long as you didn't have to play on their rugby team.
Did you, or anyone here, ever read Vera Brittain's Testament of Youth? Although the book was about WWI a lot more than it was about her college days, there was quite a good portion about overcoming family resistance and getting into one of the first women's colleges at Oxford. Or maybe it was one of the first that had gone co-ed? I don't remember. The friend I was traveling with on that first trip I made to England had brought it, and I must say that it made a huge impact, as so many of the young men Brittain knew from Oxford were slain on the European battlefields. The war memorials that seemed to be everywhere we went stood out very prominently to us. I don't remember what her college was either, though.
Seana
I havent read that one but there is a lot of good Oxford fiction.
Decline and Fall, Zuleika Dobson and Brideshead being my favourites.
Interestingly a lot of the prominent children's fiction being turned into movies at the moment has as an Oxford connection.
LOTR and the Hobbit of course, Tolkein residing and teaching at Oxford for 50 years.
The Narnia books: CS Lewis, Tolkein's contemporary was a fellow Inkling and drinker at the Eagle and Child.
The Golden Compass - Pullman lives in North Oxford
Alice in Wonderland (yup theres a new Tim Burton version coming) Lewis Carroll taught at University College
I read Zuleika Dobson and enjoyed it, and though I really like Waugh, I for some reason haven't read either of these, even though I lived with a whole household of people at one point who had had a Brideshead craze going on after Jeremy Irons hit PBS with it. That was one of those places that you live where you seem to come on to the scene just after everything that anyone will remember has already happened. Which is probably subconsciously why I have never read Brideshead, come to think of it.
I like all those Oxfordian children's writers, though I haven't read Pullman--keep meaning to. Lewis sometimes gets a bit much for me with his version of Christianity, though. I know, for instance, that a college friend gave me The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe to woo me over to her faith. Yeah, that was going to happen.
An Inkling that I found more interesting, at least as far as his fiction goes, was Charles Williams, because he seemed less, what, orthodox? simplictic?, in his thinking. Though I might like him less now. It may be time to give him a reread, actually.
Tim Burton does Alice? Now that's something to look forward to.
I always feel a little uncomfortable jumping on the condemnation bandwagon.
John, I'm just not sure you're really going to fit in here...
Just kidding. Maybe you can exert a temporizing influence on the rest of us.
Though I kind of doubt it.
David Lindsay's A Voyage to Arcturus -supposedly the inspiration for C.S.Lewis' Space Trilogy- is very good.
It is in the public domain and can be downloaded from Project Gutenberg and others.
Good points, Marco, and of course, you're right that both Lahour and Izzo speak directly to this issue, I think more successfully--is it just because more compassionately? Again, though I haven't seen the play.
Yes, good points, Marco. I'm looking forward to reading Clash of Civilizations Over an Elevator in Piazza Vittorio.
Seana, from what I've read, compassion does seem to be lacking in the play.
I don't think there should be hard and fast rules, but certainly in origin satire was directed against those who were in a position of power-and abused that power- not so much minority groups.
Very good.
Adrian, I wouldn't really hold out much hope for the play. Critics who supported it were from the Daily Telegraph and The Daily Mail. I found The Daily Mail review quite offensive. In the Guardian there's also opinions from various people who saw the play. Someone from Somalia was so numbed by the offensive portrayal of the Irish that the portrayal of Somalis was made almost bearable.
Maybe you can exert a temporizing influence on the rest of us.
Seana, my duty here is not to change but to be changed, to assimilate. I'm trying very hard. You may notice I've already gone on the attack against the play.
Seana
I'm impressed. Few people have even heard of Zuleika. Decline and Fall is short and pretty cute.
I aslo forgot to mention the Philip Larkin wrote two novels one of which was about Oxford and was very good. If he'd stuck at novel writing I think he could have been the greatest post war English novelist.
Marco
I had a look at the Lindsay it does seem interesting. Funnily enough I quite liked those Lewis space books though they have a terrible reputation nowadays. Out of the Silent Planet was particularly good.
John
Yikes that Daily Mail review doesnt make me want to rush over there and see the play. Praise from the Daily Mail is a bit like praise from Der Sturmer.
The Irish have always been a position of weakness in England which is why satricial attacks on them by Englishmen remind me so much of the missives against bumbling slave characters in Roman and new Attic comedy.
I wonder where he did his research on the Irish, Hull is not overflowing with drunken Micks but Beanie certainly grew up in the era when he would have seen them on TV.
You may notice I've already gone on the attack against the play.
I did notice that, but I am not too worried about it. It's starting to sound like a play that brings this kind of thing upon itself.
As to Zuleika Dobson, I suppose I read something about it, probably in the New York Review or somewhere like that. I like random reading, always have. I remember that Max Beerbohm wrote something called "The Christmas Wreath", I think, and have been on the lookout for a relatively cheap copy of that for what seems like forever.
Philip Larkin wrote novels? That sounds interesting. I'll have to check that out. I like reading novels written by poets. Randall Jarrell springs to mind, but he's not the only one.
Yes, good points, Marco. I'm looking forward to reading Clash of Civilizations Over an Elevator in Piazza Vittorio.
Our gracious blog host has promised to read/review it as soon as he finishes his stack of Penguin Classics.
Out of the Silent Planet was particularly good.
Out of the Silent Planet was the first album by King's X, which I liked during my metal period.
A Voyage to Arcturus is wildly imaginative and its overarching theo-philosophical view is closer to CmC than to Lewis.
Zuleika Dobson is a beautiful woman who conduces a host of Oxford undergraduates to lemminglike death, or at least that's the snippet I had to memorize for my History of English Literature exam.
I didn't know the Duke of Wellington was born in a stable. Gosh, he did well for himself, didn't he?
As, for that matter, did Duke Ellington.
And - re Martin McDonagh - courtesy of the Good Friday Agreement I think if you fancy being Irish these days you're entitled to call yourself Irish. Besides, he's second-generation, innit? A good mate of mine was born in London, to Irish-Indian parents, and looks it, and he's more Irish than I am.
Cheers,
Dec
Praise from the Daily Mail is a bit like praise from Der Sturmer.
That sounds to me like rather a harsh opinion of Der Sturmer.
Talk about coincidences- someone has just mentioned Zuleika Dobson on an Italian blog, along with the Catcher in the Rye, as an example of a very good translation.
And talk about more coincidences--I am supposed to be rereading Catcher in the Rye by tomorrow night for my book group.
Emphasis on 'supposed to', at this point.
this is completely irrelevant, but I can't believe that you put Brad Pitt in your book! the chutzpah!
Marco, Seana
And I thought I was the only one who had heard of ZD never mind read it. He's funny is Max B but not quite up there with Wodehouse and Waugh.
Clare
Nice use of the Yiddish. Pitt comes off well I think unlike other schlemiels, putzes and machers.
Dec
I'm just glad the Gallagher brothers decided that they're English, Manky English and proud of it.
John G
Private Eye calls it The Daily Heil dont they?
Yes, The Daily Heil. As you probably know, they openly supported fascism in the '30s. I thought the name was first used back then. Maybe not.
Incidentally, I hadn't heard of Zuleika Dobson, and I'm not reading Catcher in the Rye.
Shoot. I hope Clare doesn't give away the surprise ending of Fifty Grand where it's revealed that "Mercado" is really Brad Pitt, who turns out to be working up his role in a movie called "50 Grand". Yeah, it's kind of 'meta' but I think it works unless someone gives it away up front, in which case, what's the point?
Drunken and stupid, you say? I've just posted about an Irish crime author, one of whose recent books pokes fun at an American high as a kite on the drunken-and-violent stereotype.
This discussion recalls to mind an instance of some non-Irish musicians who go out of their way to avoid offense. They are the Serbian band Orthodox Celts, and they do a interesting jazz-inflected version of "Rocky Road to Dublin." Listen for their version of the lines usually rendered "That's the paddy's cure / Whenever he's on the drinking." The Slavic accents and the occasional omission of the definite article are also novel touches.
John, those writers look to me like the usual suspects. One pities poor Irish crime writers who must confront such a glorious pantheon.
================================
Detectives Beyond Borders
"Because Murder Is More Fun Away From Home"
http://www.detectivesbeyondborders.blogspot.com/
Seana
Of course you only got the galley the actual book ends with Mercado becoming Brad Pitts assistant. A win win for everyone.
Peter
Excellent linkage! Enjoyed that very much.
I will go on over to DBB and check it out.
That video clip was educational, wasn't it? Russian appears not to be the only Slavic language that drops the article.
==============
Detectives Beyond Borders
“Because Murder Is More Fun Away From Home”
http://detectivesbeyondborders.blogspot.com/
Unfortunately, Tom Cruise has gotten hold of a copy of the book too, and they galley version isn't too accurate anymore. You know those Colorado portions of the book? They're all out. Sorry.
Adrian
I know I proposed the moral superiority prize for naming all the writers, but I was really hoping someone would tell me who they are.
I searched for the ones I didn't know, and now I'm left with the 2 you weren't sure of. Could the middle top be Flann O'Brien? And the second from bottom right. Who is that elusive bugger?
Aha, I've just been sneakily looking at pictures of Irish writers, and I think it may well be Patrick Kavanagh, who wrote, "A poet? Then by heavens he must be poor."
John
I think you nailed them. Would mind seeing Louis MacNeice up there.
I didn't realise he was Irish. But yes I see, born in Belfast. It's good you don't let the Poms claim him.
Grew up in Carrickfergus did old Louis and he wrote a poem about it
There's a Ken Bruen novel called Her Last Call to Louis MacNeice which I rather enjoyed too.
Nice poem. No sugar coating there.
I haven't read Ken Bruen, but I recently picked up a copy of his novel Priest. There was a blurb from George Pelecanos on the cover "Among writers, Ken Bruen has become the crime novelist to read."
Priest is the best of the Bruen that I've read.
================================
Detectives Beyond Borders
"Because Murder Is More Fun Away From Home"
http://www.detectivesbeyondborders.blogspot.com/
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