Two interesting music news stories from the BBC today:Coldplay have denied, in a US federal court, that they copied parts of rock guitarist Joe Satriani's music for their hit song, Viva La Vida. Lawyers for the band argue that any similarities between the song and Satriani's If I Could Fly were not enough to warrant damages. Mr Satriani sued Coldplay in December, claiming they had used "substantial, original portions" of his 2004 song. He is seeking a jury trial, damages and "any and all profits" from the song. In court papers filed in Los Angeles, Coldplay also claim Mr Satriani's song "lacks originality" and should not receive copyright protection.
You can compare the two songs here. I'm no legal scholar (well ok I've got a law degree and an MA in Jurisprudence but who's counting) however if I were Chris Martin & Coldplay I'd be worried, that defence of theirs about Mr Satriani's song lacking originality - not just breathtakingly arrogant and condescending but also very shaky. The second BBC story is much happier:
Spinal Tap have announced a "world tour" consisting of a single June date at London's Wembley Arena. The tour marks the 25th anniversary of mockumentary film, This is Spinal Tap, which launched the band's career. The band will be backed by 1960s folk trio The Folksmen, the focus of another spoof film, 2003's A Mighty Wind. Spinal Tap's lead guitarist Nigel Tufnel commented: "If we're going to do a World tour on only one night, at least it's this world." Bassist Derek Smalls added: "one night is not enough, and it's way too much". Spinal Tap have used a variety of drummers over the years due several untimely deaths, including a spontaneous combustion on stage. The rest of the line-up for the world tour has not been announced but the group paid tribute to former members. Singer and rhythm guitarist David St Hubbins said: "This show will be dedicated to all of our drummers who have passed on, either to their reward or to middle management at Sainsbury's."
So how do you bring these two stories together in one place? Well by watching this YouTube of course!
51 comments:
I'm no legal scholar, but I do have a MM in Music. Based on the You Tube comparison and mix, I'd say Cold Play is in a lot of trouble. I mean, (channeling Nigel), "the tunes are bloody identical, aren't they? It's even in the same key, iddn it? Thank God Cold Play hasn't got hold of an old vinyl of Stonehenge."
And of course Chris Martin lacks Justine Frischman's swishy haircut.
Coldplay needs to lose big time on this one. And I'm glad Satriani waited until the song/album made tons of cash before pursuing his lawsuit.
As far as the Spinal Tap world tour, I hope I'm on this world when they do it!
I'm no legal scholar, but--
Well, there's no 'but'--just wanted to take part in the chorus of disclaimers. Also, I haven't even managed to download the YouTubes yet.
Great news about Spinal Tap though. Although I think my favorite movie of this ensemble of actors is still Waiting for Guffman.
Well, having heard it now, I'd say the only way they could make their case is to present several other instances of tunes that 'seem' identical, but somehow are not.
The comment thread is hilarious, though. People do just believe what they want to believe, pretty much.
I think Coldplay are cheesed right off over the allegations so that would be my guess as to why they said the song lacked originality. Me, I like Coldplay, and I think they are original enough to not have to borrow tunes. Sounds like Satriani needs needs the dough because he's sure asking for a lot in the case.
Yeah, I can admit that this post reminded me of a Satriani video I had when I was about fifteen in which Nigel Tufnel commented about playing with Joe.
According to Nigel, Joe Satriani is "Not a savage twit at all"
Coldplay owes Joe some cash if you ask me.
I wish Spinal Tap would play more than one show on the world tour! And to get to see the band from A Mighty Wind as the opening act. . . awesome.
Dana
It sounds pretty clear cut doesn't it? Same melody, same tempo, same everything really. I remember a few years ago when the Rolling Stones found out that they had accidentally ripped off KD Lang's Constant Craving, they called her up, apologised, gave her the main writing credit on the song, and invited her to be in the video. Pretty classy.
Marco
Justine and Elastica completely lost though didn't they? despite her adorable haircut and accent.
Greg
People should avoid the front row at that Tap gig when the inevitable drummer explosion happens.
Seana
Waiting for G is pretty good. I also liked A Mighty Wind. If I were Coldplay's lawyers I'd be trying my best to do just that. Tall order though.
Liam
Good for you for standing your ground. I think you're in luck too. Next year there's gonna have to be at least 3 brand new Coldplay albums.
HB
Great minds think alike - I already linked to that at the bottom of the post!
You know what would be really special? If Tap and the Folkmen could play at the same time. Now that would be something.
Incidentally not all folkies are dimwits. Did you happen to catch this Dylan interview in the Times? The guy's pretty sharp.
I expect that the 'theft', if theft it was, was unintentional, which is probably why they are feeling so defensive about it. But the Rolling Stones move would have been a great example to follow. As someone on the YOuTube thread said, 'that mix sounds good--they should get together,not fight'. A little idealistic maybe, but apt.
Seana
Yeah Chris Martin knows that its the same tune but he has to fight this because he considers himself to be an ARTIST and artists do not copy or indeed listen to or even acknowledge the existence of someone as a cheesy as Joe S.
BTW have you seen his wife's website? GOOP. This may even turn Liam's stomach.
Hmmm that link didnt work.
Here's Gwyneth Paltrow's website. If you're looking for a good nanny in Paris, she's on the case.
But couldn't Chris just say, 'I hear the celestial music of the spheres-- and that's probably what this Joe What's His Name did too?'
GOOP. You just have to love the self-regard involved. Who is the audience, really, do you think? My real question is, have we passed the point of no return on handing our lifestyles, politics,morals, and spiritual well-being over to celebrities or not?
I actually think Paltrow is a decent actress who could be a very good one if she hadn't persuaded herself that she had a better role to play. Which is as Dispenser of Goop, I guess.
Geez. Who's the twit now? Can't believe I didn't notice that you'd already linked that. Of course you would have. It just blended in with the last line of stuff at the bottom of the post.
Yeah, that Dylan is quite a character. Even his answers to questions sound like rambling songs. Does kind of remind one of Nigel.
HB
Oh dont worry about it, judging from the views very few people have seen that video which is a shame because part of Coldplay's plan it seems is to portray JS as a hack that no one's ever heard of.
He played with Tap? People have heard of him.
I dunno, I saw This Is Spinal Tap on its initial release. If I saw it again, maybe I'd laugh.
==============
Detectives Beyond Borders
"Because Murder Is More Fun Away From Home"
http://www.detectivesbeyondborders.blogspot.com/
Wow, GOOP is kinda terrible, Adrian. Fish and chips and malt vinegar and Pepsi Cola all swirling like a typhoon on roids in the pit of my belly after seeing that page, thank you very much. Chris must've had his head jammed inside the kick drum hole on that one, set up a tour quickly to claim ignorance at the fact that the lovely Gwyneth was promoting her new GOOP. Still, I like Coldplay, and like someone on the post said, I really think the band had previously never heard the Satriani song before. Really, I know there are Coldplay haters on this board, but you gotta give credit where credit is due. They are an extremely original band with boo-coos of longevity, perhaps the next, dare I say, U2.
And for those of you who have read this far, kindly forget about the time Coldplay wrote a tune called Clocks on one record and another called Speed of Sound on the following record and they both had the same exact melody.
Oh Peter
I think you'll laugh if you give the boys another shot. Try stonehenge for starters
Liam
Its pretty damaged that website I'll agree. One thing about Chris and Gwyneth though I doubt very much if they're ever rude to the little people. The seem like pretty decent people on the whole. Well brought up. I say this because I just read and watched this video on the Entertainment Weekly website, with Billy Bob Thornton showing us that Hollywood is full of assholes. I was a bit worried that in Fifty Grand no one would believe that people actually acted like that, but then Mr Thornton comes along...
Well, I don't know what happened there, but that seems like something different than someone just feasting on their own power and being an asshole about it. It seems more like mental illness. I suppose I'm just reading in, but the group as whole seems uneasy, like they are skirting something uncomfortable going on, probably with Billy Bob.
Still, I don't think you have to worry about people being skeptical about rich, pampered celebrities abusing their power. Your real worry should be whether they will ask, 'so, what else is new?' (No--don't worry.)
Someone should talk some sense into Coldplay and get them to settle this case. It's a dog and they have too much to lose by going to trial. Instead, they should turn this into a positive, cut Satriani in on the royalties, and maybe record a new version of the song with him. Win-win for everybody. The approach they're taking right now is madness.
Brian
I just think poor old Chris cant stomach the idea that everyone will see that he and Joe are peers. Chris, I think, wants to be compared with Mozart not Joe Satriani.
BTW keep it between us but I saw Star Trek XI. I wasnt at the Sydney premiere but I got sent a bootleg (which if you reading this FBI I have NOW DELETED and deleted the relevant emails). Obviously its going to better on the big screen but even so I think it was a pretty solid film 8/10. Not up there with 2 or 8 or 4 but might just edge 6 and yes I was wrong it breaks the even number curse. I'm not a fan of SPOILER ALERT time travel as a plot device but I think they handled it well and the characters were consistent and well acted. Its a two hander, basically Spock and Jim but that was as it should be. Its refs are the classic series with a lot of humor, an additional standout was that kid playing Bones. Must see for Trek fans? Yes. For Sci Fi fans? Yes. For the general public, probably yes.
Adrian, let's see if I remember well. Is the gag from the movie that they plan out this great Stonehenge visual prop, using a miniature for their planning sessions, and then on stage, the dry ice reveals ... the same miniature Stonehenge?
No thats just the set up. The reactions are the good stuff.
what i wouldnt give to be at the TAP gig. any chance of Sex Farm, you reckon? All this reminds me of Vanilla Ice going "no, the Queen song goes, dun-dundundun-dun" where mine goes "dun-dun-dun-dundun-dun"'.
Adrian -
Yeah, you're probably right about dear old Chris. And of course it's easy for me to say he's crazy when it's not my art that's being called derivative.
This all reminds me of when Kurosawa sued Leone over Yojimbo/Fistful of Dollars. Leone, apparently, was ecstatic when Kurosawa said the two movies were the same and considered it a compliment.
I'm very jealous you've already seen, albeit accidentally of course, Star Trek XI. I didn't read past your spoiler alert because I'm trying to go in cold to the movie. I will make certain to come back and talk about it with you after I see it.
I just read a crime novel in which Queen looms large. It was a good novel, though.
==============
Detectives Beyond Borders
"Because Murder Is More Fun Away From Home"
http://www.detectivesbeyondborders.blogspot.com/
Brian, good for Sergio Leone, though sobering that Kurosawa, who borrowed so fruitfully from the American Western, would sue when the Western borrowed back from him.
==============
Detectives Beyond Borders
"Because Murder Is More Fun Away From Home"
http://www.detectivesbeyondborders.blogspot.com/
Brian
I'm not stealing money from the studio BTW, I'll definitely see Star Trek again when it opens, not least to hear the sound which I've read is spectacular.
I didnt know that Kurosawa story. Isn't Yojimbo a big steal from Red Harvest?
Cam
Oh man me too. I wouldnt even mind if they played Jazz Odyssey.
Peter
Have you ever read about Freddie Mercury's notorous parties? Definitely stuff for a novel.
JAZZ ODYSSEY!!awesome. "Derek Smalls on bass...he wrote this."
Peter and Adrian,
The details of the Kurosawa/Leone lawsuit and its outcome are buried somewhere in the fog of this thing I inappropriately call memory. I read about it in Christopher Frayling's excellent book on Leone's film career, Something To Do With Death.
"I didnt know that Kurosawa story. Isn't Yojimbo a big steal from Red Harvest?"
To your point, Adrian, Yojimbo I think was an unintentional ripoff of Red Harvest (great book BTW). But Leone, unlike our friend Chris Martin, was not smart enough to raise the "lack of originality" argument that Coldplay is resorting to.
How many times has the Red Harvest story been redone? Yojimbo, Fistful, Last Man Standing, Miller's Crossing (?)...
Half off-topic, I've been trying to get my hands on The Dain Curse but can't find it anywhere. Guess I'll have to buy it online. Hammett was a genius.
A twist in the tale! (probably not hyperlinked - don't hunt me down Marco, I had love for Justine Frischman too.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLt_Hu8bHFc&feature=related
Cam
Yeah thats pretty interesting. Its a similar progression but its not identical like the Coldplay's take. I think Joe gets away with that, however if I were Coldplay's lawyers I definitely grab this. Its a jury trial and all you have to do is raise enough doubts in the minds of the jury that all these riffs are floating out there in the universe and no one's really coming up with anything totally original. It might work to stop Coldplay seeking a settlement.
I'm going to make a prediction - the lawyers are going to get very rich over this case.
Going back to Justine Frischman - she was at Naropa University in Boulder during the time that I was teaching there. Also Naropa had a reputation for spontaneous nude demonstrations on the part of the students. Alas I didnt encounter JF or the nude demos or a nude JF.
Brian
Millers Xing is definitely a Red Harvest homage. Not just the plot and the themes but also the dialogue. Near the start of RH the Confidential Agent asks someone whats happening at a big bust up - "So what's the rumpus?" he inquires, which the Coens took as a sort of "How ya doin'?" motif for the entire movie.
Never heard about those parties. I'd imagine they were something like James Whale's (or was it King Vidor's?) in Gods and Monsters. It's Queen's musical excess, though, that figures in A Big Boy Did It and Ran Away.
==============
Detectives Beyond Borders
"Because Murder Is More Fun Away From Home"
http://www.detectivesbeyondborders.blogspot.com/
Adrian, clearly you weren't trying very hard. how far back was that? I did love her so. *sigh* interesting pop tidbit: the debut elastica album is extra-notable as i'm pretty sure it's the only example of rivals for her affections Brett Anderson & Damon Albarn have song writing credits on the same record. I actually think Damon was responsible for much of their early awesomeness as he's all over that debut.
Yes. For Sci Fi fans? Yes. For the general public, probably yes.
you mean REAL Sci Fi fans are interested in that cheesy show?
Are there in the movie:
1) homoerotic moments b/w Kirk and Spock
2) homoerotic moments b/w Kirk and giant Lizards
3) bare-chested Kirk moments
4) Kirk kissing and/or bitchslapping alien princesses?
Half off-topic, I've been trying to get my hands on The Dain Curse but can't find it anywhere.
I have recently bought it (used, for .25 euros).
A twist in the tale! (probably not hyperlinked - don't hunt me down Marco,
This reminds me of a novel I've read recently in which there's a tirade about imposing discipline on chaos even if entropy increases, the universe winds down, suns go out, boilers burst and ships go down.
(a href="link")text(/a)
change ( with < and ) with >
Also Naropa had a reputation for spontaneous nude demonstrations on the part of the students.
Oxford the parsons, Naropa the students. And you always in the middle.
Have you ever read about Freddie Mercury's notorous parties?
Never heard about those parties. I'd imagine they were something like James Whale's (or was it King Vidor's?) in Gods and Monsters.
Freddie Mercury's wild parties, James Whale's wild parties, that louche German aristocrat's wild parties, and so on. I see gay stereotyping round here.
It's Queen's musical excess, though, that figures in A Big Boy Did It and Ran Away.
To link this post with the next one, I'll quote this passage from Good Omens :
Crowley was currently doing 110 mph somewhere east of Slough. Nothing about him looked particularly demonic, at least by classical standards. No horns, no
wings. Admittedly he was listening to a Best of Queen tape, but no conclusions
should be drawn from this because all tapes left in a car for more than about a fortnight metamorphose into Best of Queen albums.
Adrian,
Damn, I'd forgotten all about the "what's the rumpus" line in RH. I also heard MC was an homage to The Glass Key.
Cameron
This must have been 2005 2006. JF must have been a mature student or doing a PHD program or something. I never encountered her.
Marco
here's some spoilerish answers:
1. Yes
2. No
3. Yes
4. Kind of.
The big plus of the film, like Trek 4 and 8, is the humor. The big negatives for me were Scotty and Kirk neither of whom I could really believe in. Another negative was the villain - he aint no Khan.
Brian
I think they must have made up "are you giving me the high hat?" I cant find that anywhere.
Hey what about Rory McIlroy looks like the kid is going to make the cut.
McIlroy has a beautiful swing. His win in Dubai this year at such a young age is incredible.
last man of the cut. if he can keep his head together he could be big.
but where is justine frischmann now? what was she studying at naropa? i hope it's music related
Anon
Someone did tell me what the lovely swishy haired Justine was studying. I dont remember, but it was NOT music related, alas. Wasnt her dad a famous architect or something? Maybe it was that.
Post a Comment