Without question the Conservative Party is going to win the 2010 General Election in Britain, once again launching the idea of Scottish independence into the spotlight. The Scots have been relatively quiet since 1997 because Prime Ministers Tony Blair and Gordon Brown were Scots from the Labour Party (which is strong north of the Border). David Cameron, the Conservative leader, however, is both English and Tory, which bodes ill for the union. The Scottish National Party rules the devolved Scottish Assembly and although opinion polls have fluctuated, probably a majority of Scots now favour independence. If independence happens I wonder if the Scottish would be willing to turn back the clock and take on current Jacobite Pretender to the Scottish crown, this gentleman to the right, Prince Franz of Bavaria....
As you may know the Jacobites were denied the Kingship of England and Scotland (and Ireland) because they were Catholics and after the defeat of James II at the Battle of the Boyne in 1690 they fled to France. In 1715 (the "fifteen") and again under Bonnie Prince Charlie in 1745 (the "forty-five") they tried to raise the clans in Scotland. It didn't work and the English put down the rebellion and Charlie fled back to France. The Jacobites married into European Royalty and they haven't gone away although they gave up their actual claim to the British throne in 1810.
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Prince Franz seems like a decent chap. He's a member of the Bavarian Academy of Sciences and he collects modern art. He spent part of his childhood in Dachau concentration camp where he was sent because his family opposed the Nazis. The Scots really could do a lot worse. (King Mel the First anyone?) Franz (who the Jacobites title King Francis II of Scotland) doesn't however have any kids so the succession would pass to Prince Max of Bavaria and then to the charmingly named Sophie, Hereditary Princess of Liechtenstein.
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Of course a few pro independent Scots are republicans and some favour the current Queen (who is half Scottish after all) but I think there are still some who hanker for "the King over the water." So Prince Franz, here's a question for you, do you take Lowenbrau with your haggis or maybe a nice Schneider Weisse?
29 comments:
Sorry, I’m showing my American roots because I just don’t get the purpose of royalty in this day and age. I understand the functions they perform, and absolutely love reading about the history of British royalty, but the concept of royalty itself seems so anachronistic (I don’t mean to offend anyone; again, my Americana is on display – our kings and queens are people like Michael Jackson and Jackie O).
If Scotland gained independence, would they automatically appoint their own king or queen? Would it be unreasonable to just skip that step?
Holden
The Scottish National Party which is that rareity in Europe a left wing nationalist party is pro monarchist. They want Scotland to be independent within the Commonwealth keeping the current Queen. There are Scottish republicans but they are a small minority.
I like the idea of a monarch taking on the ceremonial functions of a country and being titular head of state - it allows wonderful things like Question Time in parliament in Britain, Australia etc. where the Prime Minister can be insulted and questioned heavily. I find it hilarious that in the US congress someone calls Obama a liar and everyone goes nuts, they really should watch Prime Minister's Questions some time
oops bad link
Prime Ministers questions
Yes, the US could use someone to take on ceremonial functions, other than the vice president, that is. It would help relieve the executive branch so he/she could actually perform executive duties. I nominate Prince (the artist formerly known as Prince, and then that unpronounceable symbol, and now Prince again).
Thanks for explaining.
I think it was actually the fact that that Obama was the first president to be treated in such a way that took everyone aback. In England, I suppose you would say it wasn't quite the done thing. Fear of retrograde racism is never all that far from the surface here. It would have been the same if Hillary had been elected and been treated that way, because people would have wondered if there a misogynist element while if it had been Bill Clinton, it wouldn't have had the same implications. And he's such a hot head that he would have given it right back.
Frankly, I don't think Obama was all that bothered by it. G.W. Bush wouldn't have been either, but then someone would probably have had to pay for it behind the scenes.
As Americans, I think we like royalty for our imaginative lives but their actual unelected authority safely across an ocean or so.
My favorite king, or actually dynasty, are the recent kings of Bhutan. Their aim seems to be not only democratization, but a serious discussion of what constitutes happiness for the citizenry. That young unmarried king is a bit of a heartthrob too. Just saying.
Actually, W got a lot more thrown at him than just the word "liar."
You're right, Seana. The king of Bhutan is a hottie.
Yes, W did, but not in that august setting, which I think was where the issue lay. It was a matter of precedent.
So you see what I mean about monarchy being good for the imaginative life, don't you, Holden?
Seana
I see, I see. I've also got a slight crush on randy little Prince Harry.
Randy perhaps, but both brave and determined, I think, and very winning.
Monarchy I understand, it's independence I don't get.
The most you can be looking at is some kind of symbolic independence, the way every country in the world is so interconnnected these days.
So, Scotland would leave the UK, but stay in the Commonwealth and the EU. And, I guess they'd join the UN. I guess I can see that.
I think we need some local connections and some bigger unions.
It's always tough to figure out how small and how big.
The cranks are worried about North American Unity and a single currency and all that, but ifthe US was five or ten smaller countries (as it should be ;) then it would work like the EU.
Holden
I am not qualified to speak on his looks but I think on the whole Harry seems like a pretty good kid. I think I'd prefer to be #2 in line anyway, good bit more freedom of action.
Seana
Yeah he went to the front and fought with the troops. Funnily enough my little brother was talking to his (Harry's) commanding officer in Afghanistan a few weeks back, but I dont think young Hal came up.
John
I have to say I'm not a big fan of the idea of Scottish independence, but if it does happen I'd like to see Shetland seek independence from Scotland and get all that oil revenue for themselves. The Western Isles were part of the Kingdom of Norway until the fourteenth century, maybe they could leave Scotland too and seek to rejoin Norway, the richest country in Europe.
I thought Prince William was by far the cutie patootie of the family until recently -- Harry sure came into his own and turned into quite the hunk. And, oh, yeah, he fought in the front lines (looked great in that uniform, and I don't mean that Nazi getup), and also carrys out lots of humanitarian missions. Yep, many reasons to admire young va va va voom Harry.
Sorry, William, but Prince Hal has got to be the fated one.
John, I'm with you here on the North American front. There's really no good reason that the U.S. and Canada aren't one, except that it's meant that Canada has had the opportunity to opt out of some of the more deluded schemes of these, our latter times.
Fragmentation doesn't really seem to be the answer, but unions have to recognize all people, and peoples, as equal. It's a utopian task, I know. Still, it's the only one worth doing, politically speaking.
Holden
You know they're not going to let Will just marry anyone whereas Harry can do whatever the hell he likes.
Seana
I'd love to see Canada and the US join, but it wont happen, unless the US realises that Canada has a couple of trillion barrels of oil squirreled away in Alberta.
I'm a firstborn, but I hardily support the secondborn being given some scope. Actually, the firstborn too, but it's never going to happen.
I don't know, the squirrels may give away that Alberta cache yet. Sneaky little things. Still adorable though. I saw a black one scamper across the road today.
Forgot to endorse the fact that Sophie is indeed a charming name. Sophia seems to be the California version these days. I know one or two. All still small.
Seana
Well at least now they've scrapped the rule that girls inherit behind boys. Its not going to be relevant for, I dont know, 50 or 60 years at least but even so its progress.
There my be oil in Canada but I don't think any of it is owned by Canadians anymore - it's all British and American now (and maybe the Dutch with Shell).
I think the way people organize themselves into groups is going to be a major theme ofthe next hundred years - especially now that virtual living is making geography much less a factor.
Look how we've created this little community across so many continents. It's tip of the iceberg stuff, people, tip of the iceberg.
This was always one of my favorite Wikipedia entries , handy in case anyone should ever ask who's 427th, 688th or 904th in the line of succession to the British throne,
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Detectives Beyond Borders
"Because Murder Is More Fun Away From Home"
http://detectivesbeyondborders.blogspot.com/
Adrian, you're a baseball fan; you'll appreciate the title of the book I want to write about Prince Charles: Reign Delay.
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Detectives Beyond Borders
"Because Murder Is More Fun Away From Home"
http://detectivesbeyondborders.blogspot.com/
The Uncyclopedia has a pretty good entry on Scotland.
The one for Ireland is pretty good, too.
Reign Delay is a great title.
I saw a black one scamper across the road today.
He's a deranged stalker . Better get a restraining order.
The Uncyclopedia has a pretty good entry on Scotland.
The Scots really seem an exceptionally pious and religious people.
Peter
I like that site although illegitimacy is a bar. And there's a lot of illegitimate heirs around. Our next PM David Cameron's great great great grandfather was King George III.
That is a classic title. I guarantee you that Dane Cook will steal that gag now and have his minions hack this site to destroy the evidence.
John
I remember reading about the Ireland one in the Belfast Telegraph but I'll admit the Scottish one is better and funnier and kind of truer.
Marco
You will see a good example of their piety, religious devotion and kindness to strangers in Glasgow about 11.30 on a Saturday night.
Write it, Peter.
John, I agree with you--grouping is going to undergo major shifts, and I suppose, for better or worse, 'face time' is going to count for less. Or else it's going to count for a lot more, because a scarce commodity. I wonder if we're all going to feel more or less alienated at the end of all this?
Oh, yeah, never mind. I just remembered that "at the end of all this", I'll be dead.
Illegitimacy is a bar. Catholicism, too.
I found that article when I was looking for information on a book I'd once seen on the top hundred in line for the British throne. I feel like the old line about Saul slew his hundreds, and David slew his thousands.
=================
Detectives Beyond Borders
"Because Murder Is More Fun Away From Home"
http://detectivesbeyondborders.blogspot.com/
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