Monday, June 11, 2012

One Football Team For Ireland

The Republic of Ireland's sorry performance in the European Championships has encouraged me to re-edit and repost this blog from a couple of years back...
....
Northern Ireland has not played in a World Cup or European Championship since Mexico in 1986 when they were eliminated in the first round and I doubt they will ever qualify again. In the 1980's the Iron Curtain was still intact, Yugoslavia and the Soviet Union only fielded one team each and Northern Ireland could usually secure a second or third seed in the group competition. The standard of play and the number of countries has increased in Eastern Europe since and typically Northern Ireland now gets a third or fourth seed with virtually no hope of making it to the World Cup finals against superior opposition. Northern Irish fans have coasted on memories of the 1982 World Cup when we came within a whisker of making it to the semis, but those glory days were more than a generation past and the current squad has more in common with a team like Iceland or Latvia or - God save us - Wales, perennial also rans. The situation in the Republic of Ireland is almost exactly the opposite. Since their nadir in the 1980's the Republic has been to three World Cups: 1990, 1994 and 2002 and this week they began their European campaign.
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It wasn’t Northern Ireland’s fault that football - unlike rugby - became split in Ireland. Dublin was the centre for Gaelic Games on the island and Belfast was traditionally the centre for football. The Irish Football Association was (and still is) based in Belfast but after partition in 1923, a rival federation, the FAI, was established in Dublin. It was nationalists in Dublin who divided football on the island of Ireland, not unionists in the North. Confusion reigned for the next thirty years with dozens of players getting called up by both Ireland federations until, in the 1950's, Con Martin, Davy Walsh, Tommy Ahern and Reg Ryan had the odd distinction of playing for the IFA and FAI teams in World Cup qualifiers. FIFA put a stop to this by ordering a renaming of the Irish teams and a strict division of players: footballers born in Eire would play for the Republic of Ireland, those born in the north, Northern Ireland.
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Northern Ireland still managed to punch above its weight, qualifying for the 1958 World Cup and then producing such stars as George Best, Pat Jennings, Sammy McIroy and Danny Blanchflower, before the heroics of the Espana ‘82 campaign. Northern Ireland fans are a small but dedicated bunch and I have been to many memorable home games at Windsor Park. The defeats of England and Germany come to mind and truly anything can happen there in that tiny, intimidating ground in the heart of west Belfast. But now that the team has been eliminated for the sixth World Cup in a row it is time to face facts, an all Ireland team is our best hope of ever getting to the Cup again and over the long term an all Ireland team might do quite well, especially if it began to draw players from all of Ireland’s football codes.
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The all Ireland rugby team is currently ranked seventh in the world and an all Ireland football team would surely rise in the FIFA rankings. There are of course many problems with this scheme. Firstly, the IFA would be furious at the loss of money and prestige if home games moved to the Aviva stadium in Dublin. Secondly, football is not rugby, rugby in Ireland is a middle class game that no one, deep down, really gets too serious about whereas football is important and comes with a heavy sectarian baggage that rugby does not possess. I concede these points, but one way to win over hearts and minds in Belfast would be to play half the home games there. Loyalist and Republican paraphernalia and flags could be banned completely as they are for Belfast Giants games and then you might even see some Catholic supporters or families with children, rarities both in Windsor Park. Sectarianism is not the universal acid it once was in Belfast and it shouldn’t be forgot that Glasgow is a city divided between Rangers and Celtic supporters who come together to boo England at Hampden Park.
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Another difficulty is that many Northern Ireland players would fight to qualify for an all Ireland team; perhaps none of the current team would be good enough. But competition is ultimately a good thing, you want footballers playing their hearts out to get selected for the national team, not just assuming they’ve made it because they’re on a big club in the EPL. The Irish rugby team grants no favors to players because they are from Ulster or any of the other provinces and that has made the team stronger. Of course the diehard sectarian nutcase ‘supporters’ will never buy into this plan, but the whole point of the peace process in Northern Ireland is to build cross community bridges and displace sectarianism whenever possible. Money, patience and trust, but especially money from FIFA, UEFA and the British and Irish governments could grease a lot of wheels and make it happen. It’s already too late to get the ball rolling for Brazil 2014, but perhaps it could happen before the 2018 World Cup in Russia.
...
I know some people will say, hold on a minute, it's not just about winning it's about playing the game, old chap. Yeah, pal, that may apply to some sports but not to football.

78 comments:

Joseph said...

well argued, but you and I both know that this is never going to happen.

HoldenCaufield said...

My motto is, if you aren't going to win, why play?
;->

adrian mckinty said...

Joe

Dont see why not. 2018 is a long enough goal for this to take place and money greases a lot of wheels.

Its the reason why Rangers and Celtic will never join the EPL - they'd lose too much money from European competitions.

As B.I.G and Lil Kim said years ago: its all about the Benjamins.

adrian mckinty said...

Holden

cue Jay Leno style joke:

Tell that to the NY Knicks.

Matt said...

Most impressive Irish athlete: Paul O'Neill. Name another with 5 World Series rings!

adrian mckinty said...

Matt

I always get a tingle when I hear Teenage Wasteland because I think Paulie's coming up to hit.

Mandie Reed said...

can you believe a girl is reading about football. lol :) i can't help it i love it!

mandie reed

seana said...

It's not about who wins or loses, it's how you play the game.

Someone had to take the moral high ground here. It might as well be me, particularly as the moral high ground is essentially my only possible contribution to the conversation.

adrian mckinty said...

Mandie

Since there's no way I'll be able to afford college for my girls I'm hoping for a soccer scholarship somewhere.

adrian mckinty said...

Seana

In all other sports I agree with you, but football (soccer) is quite a bit different.

Americans are beginning to catch on to that too. At least LA Galaxy fans are.

seana said...

Aren't you a bit old to get a soccer scholarship?

adrian mckinty said...

Seana

I still think I'll get to captain the Ireland rugby team one day.

seana said...

Are you expecting a lot of the star players to follow Beckham's example and decamp for other lands, then?

seana said...

decamp to.

adrian mckinty said...

Seana

Beckham's good but he's no Georgie Best

seana said...

You already know my sad lament. I can't watch this just now. I will, though.

Everyone else, enjoy it.

marco said...

I still think I'll get to captain the Ireland rugby team one day.

The senior team, the one-leaf clovers?
I'm sorry, but this called for ageist comment #43

marco said...

Oh, from next year one or two Italian teams will participate in the Irish-Scottish-Welsh league.

adrian mckinty said...

Marco

Thats not a bad league, although Munster always seem to win it. Rugby Union's really growing in Italy isnt it? Its funny because its been dying a slow death here in Australia. Its now the fourth most popular football code and the fifth most popular spectator sport in Australia. People a few years back thought it could be #2. Australia are, I fear, going to go into permanent decline as a rugby union power unless someone can think of a way of getting the league players into the union squad.

Liam Hoyle said...

So is totally unheard of for you to pull for the Republic of Ireland? They're playing really well and they have a shot making some real noise next summer.

Thanks for checking out the new chapter by the way. My wife loves Anne Rice but I've never read any. People love her work and to be compared to it any way must be a pretty good thing.

Sean said...

Is that the mighty Norman Whiteside perchance? I remember watching him at the old Old Trafford.

adrian mckinty said...

Liam

Unfortunately there's a sectarian divide there too. Most Catholics would more Protestants would not. Of course not everything's black and white. I'm a Prod but I do. I went to all the Republics games in the 94 World Cup for example and cheered with the best of the them. But I still think an all Ireland team is the best solution.

adrian mckinty said...

Sean

Yeah poor Norm. Could have had a very tidy little career if he hadn't gotten injured. I think he's still the youngest player to have played in the World Cup. Or maybe the second youngest.

seana said...

Nice drop by from top drawer writer, McK. You must be doing something right is all I shall say.

adrian mckinty said...

Seana

Yes it was nice of Mr Temple to drop by. I like to think that we are a small but highly sophisticated crowd over here.

marco said...

I like to think that we are a small but highly sophisticated crowd over here.

We wheat beer sipping gentlemen, yes.

adrian mckinty said...

Marco

I've got two good beers to talk about. Right now as we speak I'm sipping an Ayinger Marzen, apparently a special Oktoberfest beer, which is very good. Yesterday after the Caulfield Cup races I had a rather delicious Mt Macedon Ale, which was a top fermented little masterpiece with caramel notes, a bold hop and a decent kick. Might be the best Australian beer I've had.

marco said...

Today I drank an Apostel Bräu Extra Strong, which is a very good double malt.However most of the beers I buy for everyday consumption aren't anything special.
Among the good, easy to find and not too expensive ones are Leffe Blonde, Moretti Rossa, DAB Pilsner, Pietra (a Corsican Chestnut Beer), Löwenbräu (Helles, Pilsner, etc.) Paulaner and Franziskaner (both wheat beers). Even Foster's and XXXX can be found at the supermarket.
But the prices for most good imported beers tend to soar sky high, and when I want to spend for beers I rather go the microbreweries route.

John McFetridge said...

Wouldn't the "how you play the game," moral high ground be a united Irish team? It seems the split plays into the hands of secterianism - no matter who wins or loses.

There is an attitude in Canada that as Canadian teams are eliminated from the NHL playoffs, support is shifted to the remaining Canadian teams until the very last one -- because we would rather any Canadian team win than an American one.

I notice that never caught on in Glasgow and it's a tough sell in Ireland, I guess.

Now, if only we could stop you Europeans from taking every Canadian born and raised soccer player with any skill away from us. Like Owen Hargreaves and Jonothan DeGuzman aren't Canadian...

seana said...

As it's been bugging me a little, I have to retract my earlier allegiance to "It's not whether you win or lose, but how you play the game." Because it doesn't make sense. The whole point of games is winning or losing. I've never seen anyone feel just the same after a game if they've won as if they've lost. If that were the case, people could just go out and do drill practice or something and it wouldn't matter.

So I'll amend my statement to "It matters if you win or lose, but also how you play the game."

Of course, the moral high ground now goes to John, with all that sensible Canadian solidarity.

adrian mckinty said...

Marco

The other Australian beer I've really liked is a little brew called Fat Yak which is mildly hoppy IPA. I think you'd like that one. Beer is finally taking off in this country in that people are finally discovering microbrews - it reminds me of America in about 95 or 96.

John McFetridge said...

Of course, it's easy to take the high ground when it's all hypothetical.

On of the biggest areas of discussion during the last Quebec Referendum (1995) was would Quebec enter its own hocky team in the Olympics and World Championships?

I do wonder, though, if a united hockey team is actually one of the things keeping Canada together. Not the team itself, of course, but the fact it gives everyone in the country a common goal once every four years, or every championship year (actually World Hockey championships aren't such a big deal, but the World Juniors, as we call them, have become huge in Canada. What I guess you would call the U-20 in Europe).

There is always some discussion when the teams are chosen if there is enough 'regional representation,' and I think it's good to have that discussion just so we can hear people from every region say, "As long as it's the best team."

adrian mckinty said...

John

I love that attitude but as you say it would never happen in Glasgow or even Liverpool.

In Northern Ireland I've known people root against the Republic Team when they were playing in the world cup. I find it pretty pathetic but there it is.

I've lost patience with the people who say you should support plucky little Northern Ireland because the odds are stacked against them. The odds are against them because of a technical ruling by FIFA in the 50's.

An all Ireland team might do very well. Maybe they wont win the World Cup but they could sneak their win into the semis of the World Cup or the European Championship.

adrian mckinty said...

Seana

I do value sportsmanship though. I like the fact that in golf people call fouls on themselves for example, but the whole gallant loser schtick fills me with weariness.

adrian mckinty said...

John

I really hope Scotland and Quebec stay put. I dont think independence will be the big panacea they all think it might be.

marco said...

But think when Quebec wins the Olympics or World Championships in Ice Hockey over Canada or Usa...

seana said...

I guess I don't really know what the gallant loser schtick is. How is a loser supposed to act?

The rude star who actually gains points with the fans because basically they're a jerk is the schtick that I get tired of, and in the U.S. it seems to be one of the dominant models.

adrian mckinty said...

Seana

You see that in the NFL and NBA but not so much in baseball. You could never imagine Derek Jeter showboating his way around the bases.

I like the arrogance/confidence of someone like Usain Bolt however.

adrian mckinty said...

Marco

The Quebec Canada game would be something for the Quebecois to live for as their economy goes into the tank.

seana said...

I was actually thinking more of tennis.

John McFetridge said...

Yes, I've seen Northern Irish rooting against Ireland. It really is too bad.

We have a strange situation with our new soccer team in Toronto - the manager is Mo Johnston so you see guys in Rangers and Celtic shirts sitting quite close to one another. And, of course, they both boo him when we lose. Still, they are far away from it all in Canada now, so it really loses its edge. Maybe they even start to see it as a little silly? No, guess not.

When it comes to Quebec playing Canada, people point to the Czeck Republic and Slovakia - sure it would be fun to see the Slovacks win one but it's really a long shot.

At the moment, most in Quebec would prefer to see a team with a few Quebecois on it win the gold rather than a full Quebecois team eliminated early on by, say the USA or Russia. And think how they'd feel if they got bumped to te B pool with the Austrians and the Italians ;)

No, better to stay put.

seana said...

No one ever seems to think anything about sports is silly. Except, usually, me.

adrian mckinty said...

John

Rangers and Celtic shirts together in a stadium, I cant even imagine that as a possibility in Ireland. Incidentally the Belfast Giants I was talking about are a non sectarian hockey team and about the only family friendly sports franchise in the city.

adrian mckinty said...

Seana

I can see where you're coming from, but I think you have to take something which is such an enormous part of the culture seriously. It would be like ignoring war because its not your thing.


Its a bit like those people who say they never watch television. I always think: really what other parts of the culture do you deliberately cut yourself off from? And why are you doing that exactly?

seana said...

I know. And I understand that it's a deep part of every culture. I understand that people attach and become absorbed. I'm just saying that in my own core self, I don't subscribe.

You don't know how much I have to restrain myself when talk comes up at work about being a team player. I know I'm the person the tribe would have left behind as non-cooperative. Definitely voted off the island.

It's the importance of the game that that I ultimately have a resistance to. Athletic skill is beautiful.

And of course, like Marco and religion, its the overwhelming cultural dominance that makes the sports world, especially the commercialized sports world, a bit suspect to me. And me a bit suspect to it. No one will bother much if I don't sign on, I think.

I do like the Amazing Race though. That's my concession.

adrian mckinty said...

Seana

Did you ever see the Amazing Race episode of 30 Rock? Its a classic. Almost as good as the Paul Reubens episode.

seana said...

I did not. But I would love to.

It's funny that races are more accessible to me in general. It's probably a good thing I didn't grow up around horse races. I would probably be bankrupt by now.

marco said...

sure it would be fun to see the Slovacks win one but it's really a long shot.
2002

I would think it more along the lines of the subdvision of Yugoslavia - which has created 2-3 teams able to win world championships in waterpolo and handball, European championships in basketball, or to qualify for European and World Championships in Football.

I don't think a Quebec team would be weaker than Sweden or the Czech Republic. All the Canadians in the Italian Championships seem to be Bodreauxs or Tetreaults or something. And Canada never really fields their best in International competitions - I think a patriotically motivated Quebec team with all the NHL stars would be hard to beat for every other team.

John McFetridge said...

A couple of interesting things from this discussion for me.

One, I like to watch the struggle between sport and the "commercialized sport world." Maybe it's a rite of passage as we grow up to realize the games we love to play and watch are really commercial ventures - and then the really interesting part starts with how we deal with that.

And I love those moments when sport is really sport, when all the crap is gone for a few minutes and people just play the game.

The other thing is this idea of the "patriotically motivated" team. If that's handled well, it could be great.

I was born in Quebec and spent thirty years there. I feel that I am still very much a Montrealer (of not Quebecois), but I would never be called a Quebecois by most Quebecois.

Still, maybe because we've had this discussion so long in Canada and we're a little more calm about it now (again, we always have this giant shadow of the US hovering over us), if there was a Quebec team that was made up of players from all of Quebec - English, Irish (it's funny, the Quebecois really don't get that there's a difference between English, Irish, Scottish), Italian, Haitian - whatever - then it would be really interesting. I would have some mixed emotions about that.

marco said...

So, after Italy, now France. The two finalists of the latest World Cup.
You really can't say luck of the Irish - though I think they have a good chance.

seana said...

I'd like to say that it's the commercialization of the game I object to, but I think it's really the glorification of the game at the expense of everything else that I have a problem with. American football, particularly in the way it affects American high schools dynamics and pecking orders seems crazy.

But I do like Friday Night Lights, so I'm not against talking about the culture surrounding a sport I guess.

Speaking of television, when is your show out again, John? Or is it out now? And remind me of the name so I can look for it. I'm sorry that now I have cable, I seem to be somewhat lost in my channel surfing.

John McFetridge said...

Yes, I like Friday Night Lights, too.

And it is good to see drama about those issues. In Canada we have some similar stuff surrounding junior hockey but we almost never talk about the negative aspects.

And, of course, high school would be messed up by something else if it wasn't sports.

The show I worked on is called The Bridge and last I heard it should be on sometime in the days after the Super Bowl (do you even know when that is ;)

seana said...

Great--I'll look for it. And I know when the Superbowl is by how nice and uncrowded the streets are...

Sean said...

Just thought you'd like to know that you left some of your four-leaf clover dust in your previous homestead - the Broncos have just gone to 6-0...last four seasons they've started off that way they've gone on to the Superbowl. Could be worth a couple of quid?

adrian mckinty said...

Sean

I think the Saints look pretty impressive dont you?

I always have a soft spot for the Rockies. Went to a lot of Rockies games but the Broncos were sold out five years in advance.

Sean said...

Yer, Brees (sp?) and Reggie et al. are looking good too. Think there's four unbeaten teams out there...can still see Favre wanting to stick it to everyone with the Vikings in his first season there. Gut feeling.

Mind you, what do I know? I live near Tampa, so St. Bernadette's second team look good compared to my locals - boy, are they dismal!

Off to read the Wasp Factory again - I still pick up different things on each read.

Peter Rozovsky said...

Adrian, what's the coolest airport name: Falcone-Borsalino Airport in Palermo, Rio de Janeiro/Galeão - Antonio Carlos Jobim International Airport, or George Best Belfast City Airport?
==============
Detectives Beyond Borders
"Because Murder Is More Fun Away From Home"
http://detectivesbeyondborders.blogspot.com/

adrian mckinty said...

Peter

Well I think its pretty cool that Best got the airport named after him, but somehow I dont see even John Wayne getting his picture on a banknote

Peter Rozovsky said...

Reagan, Bush and John Wayne. Bad airport names all. I’d rather see airports named for Millard Fillmore, Franklin Pierce and Fatty Arbuckle.

Falcone-Borsalino gets my vote for the most surprising name. I bet not everyone was happy with it.
==============
Detectives Beyond Borders
"Because Murder Is More Fun Away From Home"
http://detectivesbeyondborders.blogspot.com/

adrian mckinty said...

Peter

Yeah, filthy mafia scum.

Peter Rozovsky said...

Or maybe people scared of FMS.
=================
Detectives Beyond Borders
"Because Murder Is More Fun Away From Home"
http://detectivesbeyondborders.blogspot.com/

mafia said...

Falcone-Borsellino.

Falcone-Borsalino gets my vote for the most surprising name.

I find this comment a bit puzzling.

adrian mckinty said...

Peter

Personally I think they should both be beatified.

adrian mckinty said...

Maf,

Just a typo I think.

Peter Rozovsky said...

Marco, I meant that I was surprised by the bravery of the name. It seems to me a bold and admirable declaration by public authorities that Sicily was sick of the mafia.
=================
Detectives Beyond Borders
"Because Murder Is More Fun Away From Home"
http://detectivesbeyondborders.blogspot.com/

marco said...

Well spotted Peter. Signing as mafia wasn't intentional - a Freudian slip.
My point is that that's not the way mafia works, or the level is interested in.
If mafia manages to make money from, say, the construction of the Messina Strait Bridge, the name of an Airport doesn't mean much.

Peter Rozovsky said...

My point is that that's not the way mafia works, or the level is interested in.
If mafia manages to make money from, say, the construction of the Messina Strait Bridge, the name of an Airport doesn't mean much.


I had figured as much. Maybe the mafia figures naming the airport after Falcone and Borsalino lets people drain off some anger and creates a belief that more is being done against the mafia than is in fact being done. The airport's name, while it might provide a righteous thrill, becomes a harmless public relations move.
=================
Detectives Beyond Borders
"Because Murder Is More Fun Away From Home"
http://detectivesbeyondborders.blogspot.com/

Hammy said...

That's a well argued post bud, I've flirted with the idea of uniting the teams but am terrified of a situation arising like with the rugby and the IRFU's obvious slant towards Irish Republicanism (see 'national' anthem and ROI flag). It is basically a ROI Irish side + a few blow ins from Ulster.

Football in Ireland was founded in Belfast. The IFA are the original association on the island. And a united Irish side could only ever return to the way it was pre-split.

But a UI would be no better than the current ROI & NI sides. Same if Eng/Sco/Wal combined.. i cant see how that makes a team better. Take the upcoming France v ROI playoff - its something like a country of 70m against a tenth of that. As they say size doesn't matter.

Nice to find a like-minded blogger by the way.

adrian mckinty said...

Hammy

I think it could happen, BUT you would have to play half the home games in Belfast. Its only fair and its the only way the IFA would ever come on board.

I'm not saying a UI team could win the World Cup but with an expanded talent pool, more recognition and investment, the sucking of a few players over from GAA and the declaration of nationality from a few English etc. players a UI team could be an outside bet to win say the European Championship.

I agree though it should not be allowed to happen if all the money is going to flow to Dublin. Belfast deserves half the home games and half the cash.

blackwatertown said...

It works for hockey too. Roll on the day it happens with football.
It won't be easy though - we can't still have two set of jobs for the boys, and the whole Night in November nastiness is still lurking.
Windsor Park was always an exciting place to stand in the Kop, but exciting in a scary hope-they-don't-notice-me kind of way.

adrian mckinty said...

Blackwater,

So many scary incidents at the Kop. But I wont be sorry to see it go. Now that the Republic has missed out on another world cup this has to happen!

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verymessi said...

Hello Adrian,

Huge football fan as you can probably guess from the name I use..I actually saw Georgie Best play in the old NASL..I had season tickets to the NY Cosmos. I think Best played for San Diego Shockers, if I remember correctly...

Also attended the Brazil Argentina game this past weekend at Metlife Stadium..My second time seeing the great Messi generation in person.

When he is done, I think Messi will go down as the greatest player ever. I already think he is, sorry Pele, but that is just me!

verymessi said...

Sorry about that "generation" typo above. Always in a rush when i have time to look at the internet.

verymessi said...

It was the San Diego Earthquake.

I found this genius goal by Best on Youtube. Quality of the video not too good but you can make it out...

The goal is very messi like in that Best utilizes the "drop the shoulder move" that Messi uses all of the time. Basically a body fake that makes the defender go one way while you go the opposite.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLU3sUoplis

verymessi said...

It was the San Diego Earthquake.

I found this genius goal by Best on Youtube. Quality of the video not too good but you can make it out...

The goal is very messi like in that Best utilizes the "drop the shoulder move" that Messi uses all of the time. Basically a body fake that makes the defender go one way while you go the opposite.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLU3sUoplis

verymessi said...

It was the San Diego Earthquake.

I found this genius goal by Best on Youtube. Quality of the video not too good but you can make it out...

The goal is very messi like in that Best utilizes the "drop the shoulder move" that Messi uses all of the time. Basically a body fake that makes the defender go one way while you go the opposite.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLU3sUoplis

adrian mckinty said...

Very

Its a great goal but you have to remember that at that stage Best is 10 years past his prime. There are undoubtedly greater goals but them may not be on video.