(a post from last summer)In the so called Miracle On Ice a team of college ice hockey players from the USA beat the might of the Soviet Union at the 1980 Winter Olympics. I have never been impressed by this “miracle” because of the huge amount of cognitive dissonance generated when you try to put the words “America” and “underdog” in the same sentence. If, say, the Gambian ice hockey team had beaten the Russians in the Olympic games that might have been something. The most economically powerful country in the world is a lot of things but it ain’t never gonna be no underdog.
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I had a similar reaction watching James Erskine’s film One Night in Turin about England’s campaign in the 1990 World Cup. The movie's narrator (a clearly unconvinced Gary Oldman) says that English football was a total shambles in 1990 but somehow the plucky underdogs - a team which The Sun had called “donkeys” and “no hopers” - won the heart of a nation. England lost, of course, in that memorable semi final match in Turin against Germany when Chris Waddle missed the penalty and Paul Gascoigne blubbed like John Turturro getting dragged out to Miller’s Crossing for his cranial exam.
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Erskine's film is a big grab bag of cliches, which I don’t really mind at all, but this underdog nonsense will not stand. England were the sixth seed in the 1990 World Cup. The sixth seed out of 24 teams. Sorry, but you cannot be a seed and also the underdog. If you want to do a film about underdogs in 1990, how about plucky little Cameroon, who beat Argentina and then got eliminated in dramatic fashion, by, er, England.
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Nah, England weren’t underdogs then and they certainly aren’t now. The bookies have them as the third favourite to win the 2010 World Cup. England of course is home to the richest football league on the planet and six of the richest fifteen football clubs. England is currently in the Top 10 of the FIFA rankings and has never been out of the Top 20 since the rankings began. England won the World Cup in 1966 and English clubs have won the Champions League and European Cup 11 times. I’m from Northern Ireland. Currently we’re ranked 56 in the world and we haven’t even qualified for a World Cup since 1986. To paraphrase Lloyd Bensten, I know underdogs, underdogs are friends of mine and England, mate, I love ya, but you’re no underdog.
67 comments:
The Irish Cricket team knocking Pakistan out of the 2007 World Cup was a true "underdog" story. Adding even more drama, the next day the PAK coach was found dead in his hotel room.
I hardly follow football now - eleven people that I don't know doing something that barely holds my attention - and I'm not the most nationalistic person on the planet but do I think this England as underdogs nonsense comes from some inherent belief that England should be allowed to be a great team be virtue of, er, winning one world cup. Once. When I was a lad. And inventing the game. Maybe.
A touch of the Buzz Aldrin going on, I think. You know, you went to the moon. Isn't that enough for you?
Isn't the English League only rich because of foriegn players and money?
England and the USA as underdogs is funny. I think it's interesting how both cultures love the idea of the underdog winning. Especially Americans who like to believe they have no class system, there is equality for all, everyone is free, there is opportunity for all and so how could there even be an underdog?
But looking at American culture from Canada it's a complicated place.
I remember when the US basketball team crushed someone at the Barcelona Olympics and were heavily critisized for it and Charles Barkley had some interesting things to say about it.
But now that Toronto has a soccer team in the American league I'd like to see that league get better and that means it needs to get more popular and that means the USA needs to win a few games at the World Cup.
So, in soccer I can convince myself the USA are underdogs and cheer for them.
Of course, if they ever start taking soccer seriously that'll end any underdog-ism for them and we can go back to cheering against them.
In the matchup between England and the US, would you consider the red white and blue to be underdogs? I sure would. Watched England play Monday against Mexico without Terry, Lampard, and without Ashley or Joe Cole. Mexico was unlucky at times, but England got the 3-1 win. Watched the US last night against Czech Rebublic, a team that didn't even qualify for the Cup, and they pouced on the US 4-2. Yes, they were playing without Donovan, Dempsey, Tim Howard and that crowd, but still. The Czechs are a very young team. Petr Cech and Plasil were the only returners from the 2006 Cup.
The US will get out of the group with the Three Lions, but I think they'll be considered big underdogs in that game and in the knockouts. Even though half the starting line-up are now playing in Europe.
Friendlies are completely useless.
In the Confederation Cup the Usa beat the European Champions and did lead 2-0 against the South American champions in the final, so according to those results they should be considered among the favourites for the World Cup.
In truth they don't start beaten against England, but neither start the winners against Slovenia.
They could be eliminated in the first round or progress to the quarters - neither would be a shocking surprise.
Americans say they love underdogs; they lie. How else can the continued national popularity of the Yankees, Lakers, and pre-revelation Tiger Woods be explained. Sports hegemony is the desired state in America.
On the other hand, that group of college kids had no business beating the Soviet 1980 team, considering the systems in place at the time. On the third hand, the only reason we're even using them in the discussion is because Viktor Tikhanov pulled what might be the biggest sports gaffe of all time when he took Tretiak out of the game.
Sean
The Irish team could be ever better if all the good players didnt establish residency in England and then say that they're English.
(Of course Ireland has three New Zealand born players I think).
Paul
Did you ever hear about Buzz Aldrin punching that guy in the face who said it was all a big conspiracy. If I was Buzz I'd do that all the time, not pay for my checks in restaurants etc.
"Hey I walked on the goddamned moon!" I'd say to anyone who complained.
John
One BIG difference between Britain and the US is that America likes winners whereas in Britain the gallant loser is still a respectable concept. I loved the fact that Rocky (spoiler alert) lost in the first film, but you knew that that couldnt go on, could it? Rocky eventually had to be a winner or the public would have turned against him, called him a choke artist etc.
Liam
I appreciate that its not fair, that Mexico and Brazil are far better football playing nations than the USA, but still, I'm sorry even in football (or even worse in rugby) America just cant be the underdog, because, its, well, America.
Marco,
Good point about US beating Spain. They were in form and had a great game. Even went 2-0 up on Brazil in the next game. But, if you matched the against Spain in say 10 games, the US might win 2, maybe 3. The US are better than Slovenia and Algeria, but they're not consistently better than Spain, Italy, Holland, Argentina, Brazil, etc. They may be heading that way, but they're not there yet. I feel sure that in the England's group match US, the latter will be called underdogs. The Americans can pull out the win, that's for sure.
Marco
I know that if I was playing in a friendly with the world cup two weeks away I wouldnt try especially hard to get the ball or tear my hamstring or anything.
Adrian,
I see what you're going for. Point well raised.
Dana
Who was it said in 2001 "if I root for the Yankees to win the WS the terrorists will have won"? Some Red Sox lovin lunatic no doubt.
Liam
And besides, despite all the false daws in the past, the USA is going to become a soccer power house because of the continued popularity among young Latinos. When I saw the home fans in LA boo David Beckham I knew that American soccer had become serious.
Recently someone said if Darryl Strawberry was in high school today he'd be taking a scholarship to play wide receiver for Florida.
When guys like that choose soccer over football or basketball, watch out for the USA.
Right now the USA has no depth, they can put together an okay starting XI (is that the way you write that?) but after that it thins out quick.
Soon, though.
Adrian,
Great point, even Kevin Pieterson is from SA but plays for ENG.
I hope England win the World Cup because then they might stop bleating about something that happened nearly 50 years ago.
ps: even though I have no interest in football, or soccer as they insist on calling it over here, I hope the Socceroos do well
I'm with ya on this on Adrian...America is no underdog. Now, maybe in something like cricket we could possibly pull off convincing some people we're "underdogs" for a bit, but give it awhile and we'd give ourselves away and get in the competition. The American ego would demand it ;)
Nice use of the word 'shambles'.
Your picture reminded meWe used to like to watch the cartoon Underdog, who was voiced by Wally Cox. It's interesting that the U.S. would make a cartoon called Underdog, seeing as we have very little experience of the concept.
Yeah, that's all I got.
Girish's latest blog post has an example of what in America we mean by loving the "underdog", at least in the business world.
No, they're not underdogs but also consider this:
* They talked Jamie Carragher out of retirement, so presumably they need a one-paced, flat-footed Scouser.
* They won in 1966 but their next best finish is fourth in 1990. They didn't even qualify in 1974 and 1978.
* They've never won the European Championship. Greece has. So has Denmark.
* Lots of English clubs have won European trophies but how many of them have a majority of English players?
No, they're not underdogs but the football field that is forever England often has too many bare, bumpy patches at the highest level.
Semi-finals at best, I think.
Interesting Irish cricket fact: long before Eoin Morgan and Ed Joyce, Samuel Becket played two first-class games, for Dublin University against Northamptonshire in 1925-26.
And now I'll go and bore someone else ...
John
I'm not sure where I read this, but I read somewhere that in the minor leagues African American representation is at its lowest level since the 1950's. MLB really screwed up when turning black kids onto the game. Or else NFL football is just too big a lure.
Sean
Is it Joyce who's now 31 and says he wants to go back to playing for Ireland?
Rob
At this point I feel that anyone but Brazil would be good.
Miss Snob
Did you ever see Cinderella Man? I dont mind rooting for the underdog, but I dont know why Hollywood have to make the upper dog a villain. In Chariots of Fire we actually rooted for the favourites and it was ok.
Seana
Nice linkage. That cant be right though can it?
I saw this documentary on PBS called Triumph of the Nerds and there they said that Apple blew it and that Microsoft would always be the winner.
David
You're not going to convince me. And besides you and I both know know that most English people would far rather be the gallant but plucky loser rather than the big fat embarrassed winner any day of the week. To lose in the finals on ten men on penalties to Germany or France would be the ideal result for most people.
I knew that fact about Beckett but only because of pub quizes. There's always that question: who is the Nobel Prize winner who is mentioned in Wisden.
I saw that too, but that was then and this is now. Frankly, I think Apple won the branding war awhile ago, but I haven't bitten yet.
Incidentally for anyone still reading way down here, the movie makers are right about one thing: The country did come together, I saw that match in the Pakenham Arms pub on Wren Street in London with my hard bitten work colleagues from the Mount Pleasant Sorting Office and there wasn't a dry eye in the house after Gazza got carded and started to cry. (Well except for me and my brother who were both sniggering into our pints).
You McKintys are certainly a flinty lot.
I know, I know--dour Presbyterian upbringing. It doesn't explain everything.
I'd guess Harold Pinter. It's said he slept in his wicketkeeping gloves.
The English do love to be gallant losers and it's something I've never understood. I bet Fabio Capello doesn't either.
And if England do win this year, it will be because of the difference he's made.
Seana
I think it explains more than you'd think. Or perhaps excuses is a better word.
RE the Gazza semi-final, I was working on the Daily Mirror and when Waddle missed his penalty, the reaction in the newsroom was a mixture of heartbreak, frustration, genuine fury at the Germans and some surprising compassion for England. At the start of the tournament, they'd been at best dismissive and at worst contemptuous of the team and poor old Bobby Robson.
David
I've read a number of sources that indicate that the Brits were never happier than when they were being bombed by the Germans and an invasion was a day or two away. I also like the fact that until recently D Day was celebrated more in America whereas the Brits celebrated Dunkirk and A Bridge Too Far.
The clue was in the question. The cricketer was ray of sunshine Sam himself. His NY publisher took him to a Mets game once and apparently he quite enjoyed it. But all the hipsters always love the Mets, because basically they're, er, underdogs.
I don't buy that England is an underdog crap either, but it must say something about the damaged sporting psyche of the world's formerly greatest soccer nation that it can even pretend to be so.
Seana, nice recognition of Adrian's nice use of shambles. Many Americans do not know what the word means or, hence, how to use it correctly. This is even the case at some newspapers.
I think Seana has cracked it - 'dour Presbyterian upbringing' - it is the secret of the true 'perpetual' underdog mentality, even when you have become top-dog.
But coming from the same quarter, I think it is a shared cultural trait in the English-speaking world with Catholics. Dang it all, we even fight each other here in Ireland to be recognised as the real oppressed minority.
Many Americans do not know what the word means or, hence, how to use it correctly. This is even the case at some newspapers.
Given that the original meaning of the word is archaic and obscurer by the day even in England, as well as the similarity with forms like in tatters/in pieces/in ribbons, I'm afraid you might win a few battles, but in the long term the outcome of the war is a foregone conclusion.
David
Jesus, whats happened to Gazza now is pretty grim. Worse than George Best or Maradonna.
Peter
They work themselves up into a damaged psyche. By all standards England's a very agreeable place but they like to think that everything's been going to the dogs since...well you have to date.
I wouldnt want to have lived in any time when they didnt have antibiotics, so all periods post 1945 look pretty rosy to me.
Philip
One of the reasons I like Maine so much, especially in the rural places is the dour, taciturn, civil (but not that friendly) people. Its very familiar.
Marco
Strangely enough I was reading a book today by Robert McCrum called - I think - Globlish about how new forms of English invented in China and India are going to take over the world. I seem to remember Antony Burgess having this idea and Philip K Dick and David Brin and oh just about everybody. I expect they're right. The English in 100 years will be like the English of 500 years ago which is why I think, among other reasons, writing for posterity is foolish, unless you're composing classical haiku in Japanese or horatian odes in Latin or something.
Seana
You're right I think Girish's blog post is a bit of an underdog story.
I remember in 2000 and 2001 reading many articles about the impending death of Apple.
Wow, keeping up with who said what on these comments gets confusing. I'm impressed Adrian :)
I haven't seen Cinderella Man, it was a boxing movie right?
On another note, my husband just finished your "Dead" series on audio. I swear, for about a week and a half, (how long it took for him to get through all 3), I felt like he was cheating on me with an Irish mobster.
I'm off to see how to the word shambles was used now.
Dog Snob, I think the answer is that Adrian is pretty quick on the uptake for a lapsed Presbyterian. But you'll find it easier too when you come to know the players here.
Peter, no, as usual, I had to start from the position of confused, wrong and wronger, before getting anything like close to right. You can follow my slow progress towards enlightenment with the help of a few familiar types here.
The English in 100 years will be like the English of 500 years ago which is why I think, among other reasons
Funny, I just stopped by on Philip's blog and recommended to him Riddley Walker, according to which the English in 2,000 years will be like the English of 1,000 years ago. By the way, Riddley Walker is the best post-apocalyptic novel ever, no question.
I do remember the underdogs of Northern Ireland in 1982, my friends and me were big fans of them and Honduras, who got kicked out by the referees. Hope they'll be qualified again soon.
PS: Cameroon did not beat Germany 1990.
Miss Snob
Yeah my brain is steel trap, or, er something.
Seana
What you said.
Marco
I'm reading The Anubis Gates on your rec. Pretty good. Actually I'm listening to it.
Andre
Complete slip of the keyboard there. I meant Argentina of course, who were the reigning champions! I have changed it.
1982 will never come again for N Ireland. The odds are just too heavily stacked against. I've advocated in several places for an all Ireland team like in the rugby and cricket but everyone is too entrenched. Its a crying shame. An all Ireland team could maybe be as good as Holland or perhaps Spain.
The IFA is afraid of losing the revenue generated by home games in Belfast, but if they played half of the home games there...
Actually here's my entire blog post about it.
Marco, I knew that "shambles" is not preceded by "in" well before I knew what a shambles was. "In shambles" is what gets on my nerves rather than the slipping away of the word's meaning into the bloody killing floor of history.
==============
Detectives Beyond Borders
"Because Murder Is More Fun Away From Home"
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I'm reading The Anubis Gates on your rec. Pretty good.
Ah, but The Anubis Gates is GudFan, Riddley Walker is TruArt, the kind Peter Temple doesn't do because he only writes for the money ;)
I knew that "shambles" is not preceded by "in" well before I knew what a shambles was. "In shambles" is what gets on my nerves rather than the slipping away of the word's meaning
But of course, the reason why "shambles" is not preceded by "in" resides in the original meaning of the word. When the original meaning is lost, what remains is a word which looks like a plural and seems to mean something like mess/confusion/disorder/clutter. There's nothing that stops the analogic construction with phrases like in pieces/ribbons/rags/tatters anymore. It's a bit like complaining against shopaholic because the -holic suffix doesn't exist.
Still, I suppose you will be able to take comfort in the fact that you have copyfought the good fight.
marco
its interesting that both Hoban and Walter Miller both served in the Italian theatre in WW2.
But of course, the reason why "shambles" is not preceded by "in" resides in the original meaning of the word. When the original meaning is lost, what remains is a word which looks like a plural and seems to mean something like mess/confusion/disorder/clutter. There's nothing that stops the analogic construction with phrases like in pieces/ribbons/rags/tatters anymore. It's a bit like complaining against shopaholic because the -holic suffix doesn't exist.
Mrco, I understand why "in shambles" came about, but I don't have to like it. Analogies abound: The short form of "helicopter" ought to be "opter" or "pter," since the constituent parts of the word (memes, I think linguists would call them) are helic-, the combining -o-, and -pter. But English lacks the pt sound, so naturally falls back on a form that feels natural to speakers of the language.
Still, I suppose you will be able to take comfort in the fact that you have copyfought the good fight.
Yeah, I've been feeling awfully martyrlike and doom-laden in a professional sense the last few years. I may have to go back and read that favorite of mine from high school, Ecclesiastes.
Having just recently learned the original meaning of the word myself, I mentioned it to a friend, and she thanked me for the information and told me she wouldn't be using it anymore. I mean, I think she would use it if she happened upon a slaughterhouse maybe, but as a vegetarian she wouldn't use it in an analogous way, I guess. Santa Cruz. You see what I'm up against here.
Seana, I had refrained from easy jokes about vegetarians and Santa Cruz, but you beat me to the punch. I don't suppose linguistic puritanism such as your friend's will hurt anyone as long as she doesn't get preachy about it.
You could invent meat-based etymologies for any number of common words and expressions just to see how far you can reduce her vocabulary.
Maybe, but I think it's the fact that it's not invented is key here. She's also a lawyer, so I think I better be careful.
If you want literature and sport, you can't go far wrong with this bunch
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allahakbarries
My kind of team, Rob.
I was really looking forward to ONE NIGHT IN TURIN, but found it extremely, extremely disappointing.
Kid
I dont buy the premise at all!
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