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If Scotland Secedes Should Shetland Skidaddle?
If Scotland leaves the UK in 2014, it would make a lot of sense for the Shetland Islands to secede from Scotland. An Independent Shetland would have roughly the same population as the Faroe Islands but it would be much wealthier as most of the UK's North Sea oil reserves would lie within Shetland's territorial waters. Shetland's bonds to Scotland are tenuous. Until the fifteenth century Shetland was part of the Kingdom of Norway and the last of the Norn speakers did not die out until late in the nineteenth century. Shetland is closer to the regional Norwegian capital Bergen than it is to Edinburgh (if my estimate on Google maps is correct); Norway you'll recall is the only country in Europe which has weathered the recent financial storms with aplomb because of its vast Government Pension Fund which will have assets close to a trillion dollars by 2019. Shetland would be foolish to join Scotland which will probably have a great deal of difficulty making ends meet, like Ireland (or God save us, Northern Ireland). Independence or some sort of reunion with Norway would make much more sense culturally and especially economically.
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And of course as Shetland goes so presumably does Orkney. And it wasn't that long ago that the entire Western Isles were part of the Kingdom of Norway either. Kintyre used to be part of the Scottish-Irish kingdom of Dalriada and why shouldn't the Gaeltacht in the north and west have its own country rather than be dominated by Scots speaking lowlanders? And what about the crazy Protestants of Ulster who consider themselves at least half Scottish, what if they want a union with Scotland not England or Ireland? It all gets rather complicated doesn't it? Look, I'm not saying that the Scots shouldn't vote for independence in a couple of years but once the secession box is open who knows what might come out of it. If the Shetlanders have any sense they'll keep all that lovely North Sea oil for themselves. A Burj Khalifa in Lerwick would look fantastic. And a pony for everyone!
29 comments:
The independence debate is raging fairly strongly here although the referendum is still 2 years away. It is interesting to see pro Union parties pushing for an early vote when they traditionally were scared of having one. Salmond is a shrewd politician although I'm not a big fan of his. I don't know yet how I'll vote but I do start from the default position that if David Cameron is for something, I'm against it.
Remy
Its funny though isn't it? If Scotland does go then Cameron and the Tories will have a permanent Conservative majority in England and Wales. He could be Prime Minister for twenty years if he wants.
Why stop there? After all, everyone north of Watford loathes the Soft South. Pesonally I'd like to see a return of the Kingdom of Mercia. The Mercian kings are the only people who ever found a use for Tamworth. I'm not sure who would be king though. Jasper Carrot? Ozzy Osbourne?
Adrian
Agreed and that's why the Labour party is so keen on the union or, the horrifically named, devomax option. Without their huge number of Scottish MPs in Westminster, they would have no chance of power again unless they rejected even more of their principles. Labour's vote collapsed in Scotland last year and the people who lead the party in Scotland are a shower of uninspiring non-entities.
Remy
As I see it its a win win for Cameron. If the Scots vote no he saved the union! If they vote yes he gets to be Prime Minister until he retires in twenty years.
Ah feck it. A YES in the indy vote for me then!
David
Yeah and every Yorkshireman I've ever met could comfortably be placed in an independent Yorkshire. I was going to say would "happily be placed" but I've never seen a happy Yorkshireman.
like you I escaped from ballycastle and made it to tasmania, as far as possable form the" never ending daulity" enjoyed your book, "the cold cold ground" keep writing. "what are they doing in Rathary, but fishing and fighting and taring away." forget about the jocks.
Secession is always a slippery slope. When Quebec's separatists were at their zenith someone asked Jacques Parizeau, their leader, if Quebec's Native Canadians (Quebec's giant hydroelectric installations sit on their land) should have the right to secede from an independent Quebec. There was an uncomfortable silence, then some heming and hawing, and then a shifty reply that that wasn't the subject under discussion. I guess the lesson for secessionists is go ahead and leave, but you'd better be ready to say yes to the next group that wants to leave the fold.
As Adrian suggests, the example of Ireland should serve as a warning. Somehow, boring economic realities always win out over romantic visions in national as in personal life. And I suspect there might be a few upheavals of an economic nature to come which will alter the landscape considerably.
FB
Ballycastle gets an apperance in the next book. Ballycastle and Rathlin. Thanks for the niceness about CCG.
Cary
I don't see why the sovereign Indian nations shouldnt have the right to secede if Quebec goes.
Mark
The funny thing about Northern Ireland now is that because a third of the population is either a civil servant or on some form of public assistance no one wants it. If the Republic of I was take over tomorrow it would bankrupt the country. Scotland couldnt afford it. England can barely afford it. About the only place in the world that could afford to take over N.I. is China and - so far - they've shown no inclination.
Nice use of s sounds in the title.
Secession is a very slippery slope. I think the U.S. is still paying for that coming about here.
Northern California and Southern Cal are always threatening to secede from each other, but as someone who has roots in both, I'm pretty sure it would be a bad idea.
The myth of Tory dominance in England is widespread but untrue. Although England got a different government in 2010 than the one it voted for, that's only happened very rarely in the last century. Labour won a majority of seats in England in 1997. And in 2001. And in 2005.
It seems like such a 19th century discussion. What's it really about, Olympic teams and awards shows?
Every country is in some bigger union anyway, right? When Quebec seperatism was strongest (though it hasn't gone away) they were talking about a different arrangement within NAFTA - surely Scotland would be a member of the EU and use the Euro? Why be a member of Britain, too?
And Seana, maybe Americans would be happier in five or six smaller countries, all in NAFTA?
John, maybe, but the question is really where you would draw the line. And I think that people would end up being somewhat diminished, though they can't quite realize it now. Breaking up the U.S. at this point really only appeals to people's snobberies and prejudices. The West Coast doesn't want to know the Midwest and so on. It's small minded.
Seana
I thought dividing California would be a good idea actually. Why should California have the same number of senators as S Dakota?
Angus
Well yes if Labour finds another Blair...I dont see it in the medium term do you?
John
I think thats a good thing for the Scottish Nationalists. There's absolutely not question of Scotland leaving the E.U. or, (I think?) NATO. If Scotland leaves the UK there wont be passport controls on the M6 just as there aren't on the M1 in Ireland. Everyone will still be within the European Union for good or ill.
Norway of course never joined.
But then again, an independent Scotland could do something about this bullshit:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/georgemonbiot/2012/mar/02/deer-study-highlands-scottish
Key fact:
In other words, three-quarters of one of the biggest counties in Britain is owned by 81 families. These aren't the 1%. They're the 0.000001%.
Angus
here's a very brief but interesting article on precisely this question:
http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2012/01/scotland-labour-majority-win
But Seana, isn't nationalism small minded? The snobbery works both ways, too.
And, as Adrian says about Scotland, as long as the five or six smaller countries that come out of the Ununited States all belong to NAFTA and NATO and allow their college teams into March Madness there might not be so much downside.
It would mean maybe closing down some of the 700 US military bases around the world, but that might not be so bad, either.
I think sometimes the US is too big and too abstract for many people tomstrongly identify with it, which is why
people identify with their state or region more strongly.
In Canada Quebec has essentially seperated, there's almost no moving between it and other provinces (English move out, immigrants from other countiees move in, that's it), it has its own arts industries and so on. The only thing left is a seperate national hockey team (and Scotland already has a national soccer team).
John
One of the things that prevented any left wing party appearing in Ireland post 1922 was the separation of the working class of Dublin and Belfast and Liverpool. An unintended consequence of independence and partition.
Paul Brazill reviews The Cold Cold Ground here:
http://pdbrazill.blogspot.com.au/2012/03/cold-cold-ground-by-adrian-mckinty.html?spref=tw
John, when you said the bit about there being almost no moving between Quebec and the other provinces, that's exactly the kind of thing I wouldn't want to see happening.
I wouldn't mind the end of the U.S. military bases abroad either, though actually I wouldn't exist if there hadn't been one in Libya. But I I don't know that it's true that people are just regional in their identifications. I really think we are both national and regional--and community--identified. I don't think it's that hard to get one's mind around.
And, as half my family is in Southern California and half in the north, I really don't think it should be split. Although Adrian makes a good point about the Senators.
Adrian - CCG also got a good review from John Dugdale in today's Sunday Times
John
Damn that Times pay wall!
Oh well someone will eventually send me the cutting.
Adrian - send me your email address to johngrundy.grundy@btinternet.com & I'll get a copy to you
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